Woodland Pattern Presents Oliver Bendorf and Trish Salah

This Woodland Pattern interview series will document conversations between some of the writers, artists and performers who pass through Woodland Pattern and Milwaukee. Oliver Bendorf and Trish Salah read at Woodland Pattern on January 17, 2015 as part of Shift: Guest Curators from the LGBTQ Community. Below are excerpts from their reading as well as a conversation conducted via e-mail after the reading.

Oliver Bendorf, recorded by Michael Wendt, Woodland Pattern, January 17, 2015

Trish Salah, recorded by Michael Wendt, Woodland Pattern, January 17, 2015


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Housten Donham with Josef Kaplan

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For 2015, The Conversant is partnering with Open House, a new online journal of poetry and poetics. This interview concerns Josef Kaplan’s Kill List (2013). Visit Open House for more interviews and contemporary poetry.

Housten Donham: I think that I’m just going to ask you some stupid questions, if that’s alright, because it seems to me that stupid questions might be the most important questions to answer, if questions are going to be answered, when it comes to engaging with the “around” of your work.

For example, usually when I explain Kill List to people who aren’t poets, they almost always immediately ask, “How did he determine whether the poets were rich or comfortable?” Which may be a stupid question, and yet, when I asked you that a few months ago, I found the answer quite interesting: you based the qualifications solely on rumor, on what poets you had talked to had told you. Which is great because that seems to coincide with many of the larger concerns that I personally, at least, read in Kill List, around the social network of contemporary poetry. I see it as a kind of coterie poem, but one which breaks down or at least threatens the social fabric of the coterie. Do you think it is productive to read Kill List in this light, as a kind of social document of contemporary poetry, as something that records, reflects, and reduces the social network and the concerns and interests that make up much of the poetry community?
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That Which Quickens the Pulse: Neelanjana Banerjee, Lisa Chen, and Sunyoung Lee on Kaya Press

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Sunyoung Lee, Lisa Chen’s Mouth, Neelanjana Banerjee

In 2014, Kaya Press celebrated 20 years of publishing innovative Asian Pacific American and Asian diasporic literature, including books like R. Zamora Linmark’s seminal Rolling the Rs and Sesshu Foster’s City Terrace Field Manual. Since relocating to Los Angeles in 2011, Kaya continues its mission to publish “challenging, thoughtful, and provocative” work including American Book Award winning Water Chasing Water by poet Koon Woon, and Shoshon Nagahara’s Lament in the Night (translated by Andrew Leong)—a historical rediscovery of a writer originally writing and publishing in Japanese out of LA’s Little Tokyo in the 1920s. Managing Editor Neelanjana Banerjee, Publisher Sunyoung Lee, and Lisa Chen—Kaya Press author (Mouth, 2007) and Editorial Board member—discuss creativity in the editorial process and whether ethnic-specific publishing will continue to be relevant in the 21st century.  This is the first of a series of conversations which will highlight the work of Kaya Press.
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Flying Object Presents: Trinie Dalton

Trinnie Dalton
Trinnie Dalton

In his book Toward Reality, John Berger says the ideal critic would have “the historical perspective necessary” and “the imaginative appreciation necessary” to see outside one’s moment, the power to stand on the corner of the present and look both ways, assess one’s position in relation to traffic. “But in fact it is impossible.” All the critic can do is look, with painfully inadequate and subjective eyes, at the present. To see the opposite corner, look into it, understand it, and walk towards it without being flattened. And art is a busy street.

Trinie Dalton writes criticism, interviews artists, writes books of fiction, and spearheads artist books, including You Who Read Me with Passion Must Forever Be My Friends by visual and textual artist Dorothy Iannone, out recently from Siglio Press. Dalton exercises a malleable approach to her critical writing, working from ‘the inside,’ articulating the work of artists she knows. She sidesteps the need for speculation by transforming conversations with friends into critical work. But the worries of time, of faithfulness, of the need to be ‘critical,’ don’t abate. For her, criticism is a question of who gets to speak, and the ethical dilemma of having a voice.

Ianonne coined the term ‘ecstatic unity’ to define her artistic practice, and in her essay on Iannone, Dalton elucidates the concept, defining it as an “inversion (& merging) of male and female, muse and maker, sacred and profane, celestial and carnal, submission and dominance, compliment and insult, humor and earnestness,” which could just as easily apply to the chameleon work of the critic. To look at something and keep looking is an endurance test, a cross examination, sensual act, a merging of identities, a hilarious way to spend an afternoon, a leap of faith.

– Patrick Gaughan
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Rolling Around on Carpets: Danielle Susi with Ocean Vuong

Ocean Vuong and Danielle Susi
Ocean Vuong and Danielle Susi

Despite his relative youth, 26-year-old Ocean Vuong has been on the poetry scene for some time. The Saigon-born poet examines heartache, loss, and a type of metamorphosis in his work. He uses enjambment and space on the page cleverly and in a way that only makes his work that much stronger. In “Aubade with Burning City,” Vuong expertly incorporates lines from Irving Berlin’s seasonal classic, “White Christmas” as part of a way to talk about a 1975 evacuation of South Vietnam: “…When the dust rises, a black dog/ lies in the road, panting. Its hind legs/ crushed into the shine/ of a white Christmas.” I spoke with Vuong about the intricacies of craft and process, and why he doesn’t feel fit to offer advice to new poets.

Danielle Susi: Beside the very important content of your poems, one of the things that stand out most about your work is the way you use form and the way you use the page. Could you talk a little about how content and form play together for you and when you feel a particular form or enjambment is critical to the work?
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ManifeStation 2: Anaïs Duplan & Kione Kochi

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ManifeStation poster outside Flux Factory (photo credit: Kione Kochi)

In the second part of this series, artists Kione Kochi and Anaïs Duplan discuss the role of biography and autobiography in the writing of manifestos and how their own biographies influence them during ManifeStation, a temporary manifesto-writing service held at Flux Factory. Read the first part in this series in the February issue.  

  1. Choose one of the people we interviewed. In your own words, tell his/her/their life-story. Then read an excerpt from his/her/their manifesto that you think correlates particularly well to that person’s biography.

Anaïs Duplan: Jack Grange had, perhaps, the most enthralling biography – and of course, Jack Grange isn’t his real name; he asked us not to mention him by name, because he used to be a practicing physician. One of the first things he said was, “There’s no use talking about the future because it doesn’t exist.” It was at that moment that I leaned forward in my chair and everything else in the room disappeared for me.
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Josh Kalscheur with Seth Abramson

Seth Abramson
Seth Abramson

Poet Josh Kalscheur interviews Seth Abramson, Co-Editor of the Best American Experimental Writing (“BAX”) anthology series, the first volume of which was published by Omnidawn in January 2015.

Josh Kalscheur: What initially led you to this project?

Seth Abramson: As it turns out, it was more a “who” than a “what”—Jesse Damiani, my Series Co-Editor, developed the idea and asked if I wanted to help him with it. My first thought was to be surprised that no one had proposed this sort of anthology before, as while Jesse and I have seen and read many remarkable anthologies of innovative writing, none were annual or open (even in part) to unsolicited submissions. My second thought was to realize how desperate I was to immerse myself in new modes of writing, and how this project would be a perfect opportunity to do just that. It was a selfish thought, but after spending 2012 and 2013 reviewing over a hundred books for online venues—and having been exposed to several thousand more poetry collections in the quest to find a hundred or so to review—I’d become pretty jaded with respect to contemporary poetry. I saw much well-deserved celebration of competent craft, but too little acknowledgment of courageous acts of authorship that fall outside conventional notions of good taste. I wanted to do my part to expose innovative writing to new audiences, and to encourage conversations about risk that were already happening locally to move to the forefront of our larger literary dialogues.
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The People: Jennifer Moon and Lindsay Tunkl (Ep. 18)

The People with Insert Blanc Editor and Publisher Mathew Timmons and Insert Blanc Artist Ben White, features the voices and ideas of The People that make up the cultural landscape of Los Angeles, the west coast, and beyond on KCHUNG 1630AM every 3rd Sunday at 3pm and podcast on iTunes as The People RadioThe People is me, The People is you, The People is we, and You Can Too! … like a Broken Record magically repaired. In this issue of The Conversant, we feature The People episode 18 with Jennifer Moon and Lindsay Tunkl. —Mathew Timmons and Ben White

The People: Jennifer Moon & Lindsay Tunkl

Artists Jennifer Moon and Lindsay Tunkl talk to us about the emotional component of art making, having super powers, and the revolution. Melissa Guerrero discusses the past, present, and future of the L.A. river. Featured music by Malik Gaines and Jennifer Moon. As always our interstitial music is the song “Ocfif” by Lewis Keller.

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Negotiating Academic Constraints: Clara S. Lewis with Louis Bury

Louis Bury and Clara Lewis
Louis Bury and Clara S. Lewis

This interview is on the occasion of Louis Bury’s Exercises in Criticism: The Theory and Practice of Literary Constraint (Dalkey Archive Press, 2015)

Louis Bury: In an academic job interview, I was once asked, “I read your writing sample and I have to ask: ‘Why would anyone want to read this? What’s the point?’” The writing sample came from an earlier version of this book, but was ultimately cut. And in it, I catalogued what I could remember about all the books on my bookshelves whose contents I’d entirely forgotten: so the associations I had with each book, where I bought it or who gave it to me and why, things like that.
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Philip Metres with Dimitry Kuzmin

Dmitry-Kuzmin
Dmitry Kuzmin

This interview series, “Conversations after the Fall: Interviews with Contemporary Russian Poets,” began as part of Philip Metres’s Thomas J. Watson Fellowship (1992-1993), and has been revived, 20 years later, compiling new interviews with Russian and Russian-American poets. The complete archive will be published in book-form.

—Philip Metres

Philip Metres: When did you begin writing poetry, and who were your influences?

Dmitry Kuzmin: This is a complex and somewhat funny story. In theory, I am a third-generation writer. My grandfather, Boris Kuzmin, who died in the Second World War, was a literary critic, a specialist in English literature, particularly Byron and Goldsmith. My grandmother Nora Gal survived him for half a century, in 1941 defended a thesis on Arthur Rimbaud, and after the war became one of the most famous translators in the USSR. Here one should note that after the death of Stalin, the Iron Curtain around the USSR was not so strong as before, and the masterpieces of 20th century world literature (the ones that were allowed by the Soviet regime) were much more important events for the Russian reader than for foreign readers, and translators—the people that make acquaintance with these masterpieces happen—could be quite famous, as perhaps did not happen with translators in any other era in any other country). My grandmother translated many things, from The Little Prince by Saint-Exupery and The Stranger by Camus to three dozen short stories by Ray Bradbury (one of which, “The Best Part of Wisdom,” in which an old man on the verge of death suddenly decides to visit his beloved grandson in the capital—and discovers that his grandson lives with another young man—were not brought into publication in the Soviet Union. One could not publish anything on this subject, and this translation spent fifteen years in the desk [unpublished], and when I got it out after her death, I took it as a blessing of my union with my beloved man).
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ManifeStation: Anaïs Duplan & Kione Kochi

From left, Kione Kochi, Danielle Freiman, Anaïs Duplan, and participant Gil Lopez. Photo credit: Jaime Idea
From left, Kione Kochi, Danielle Freiman, Anaïs Duplan, and participant Gil Lopez. Photo credit: Jaime Idea

On October 18-19, 2014, artists Kione Kochi and Anaïs Duplan offered a temporary manifesto-writing service at Utopia School, “a month-long social center hosted at Flux Factory for the purpose of studying Utopian experiments throughout time, as well as practicing our skills towards building new free spaces and practices.” During ManifeStation, Kochi and Duplan held thirty-minute interviews with Utopia School participants and visitors. In the ensuing weeks, they collaborated on a manifesto for each interviewee, writing twenty manifestos in total. This is the first of three conversations on ManifeStation. In this first conversation, Kochi and Duplan interview each other on the experience at Flux Factory and driving forces behind ManifeStation.  Next month, they speak to the role of (auto)biography in manifesto-writing.

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Caleb Beckwith with Tom Comitta

Tom Comitta
Tom Comitta

In January 2015, I sat down with Tom Comitta in Oakland, CA to discuss the role of performance in his poetics as well as contemporary poetry at large. Over this thirty-some minute conversation, we make repeated to reference to Comitta’s vocal project WARMUP and The City of Nature (Make Now 2015) as well as Philadelphia-based readings that serve as reference points for us both. An excerpted transcription is below (beginning with a discussion of Nature), and the featured audio clips include our full conversation, excerpts from both Comitta projects, and a January 2015 off-site reading for LA’s Poetic Research Bureau. 

This is the first in a series of conversations concerning performance and contemporary poetics. 

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Ching-In Chen with Gregory Pardlo

Gregory Pardlo
Gregory Pardlo. Photo Credit: Rachel Eliza Griffiths

This conversation with Gregory Pardlo is part of Intersecting Lineages, a series focusing on conversations with poets of color following a series of cross-community solidarity readings and panels among poets involved with organizations such as Kundiman, Cave Canem, Canto Mundo, RAWI (Radius of Arab American Writers), Institute of American Indian Arts and VONA (Voices at Our Nations Arts Foundation).

Ching-In Chen: I’m interested in the choice to begin Digest with “Written By Himself,” which at first, felt more familiar in its music of anaphora and its lyric strategies. But that title begs a twist to what follows. It makes me wonder if such attention is called to authorship, who wrote those lines, where they came from and which speakers have been brought before the reader to witness and for what purpose(s). And when I return to this poem after reading the book, it hints towards what’s to come, with your longer sequences and variations (“Marginalia,” the Improvisations series). What kinds of conversations do you envision curating on the page for your reader(s)? Has this changed from your first book, Totem, to Digest?

Gregory Pardlo: Since Totem, I’ve gotten more self-conscious about sincerity and authenticity and the emotional range I, a person assigned to the social registries of, among others, male and black and American, am allowed to articulate before my words are pronounced false or unrecognizable by the audience, my auditors. The slave narrative genre is like a starter kit for all my obsessions in this regard. Slaves weren’t supposed to have access to the kind of subjectivity necessary to string together a narrative. And they certainly weren’t supposed to be literate enough to record their narratives by their own hands. Someone—sometimes several someones—had to serve as witness to verify the conditions under which the formerly enslaved person claimed to speak. That is, someone had to confirm that the text was indeed written by the former bondsperson him or herself. This gets me thinking about the ways my own or anyone’s work relies on various types of—usually institutional—mediation to be heard and recognized. While reading slave narratives I wonder how does the author’s awareness of the reader’s blind spots or threshold for credence influence the writing process. What performance does one have to give, what pass/words does one have to recite, to gain admission to the fellowship of intelligibility—or any institution for that matter? When I consider the word “written” do I mean arranged, curated, inscribed, mimicked, published, appropriated? And the strangely third person subjectivity of “himself”: from whose subject position is the reader supposed to enter the narrative frame? Who “authorizes” me to speak? Who licenses this “I”? (Even in this, I hear “who takes this bride,” the constant hum of patriarchy.) In some ways, my suspicion is that I can’t get much farther than the assertion “I was born” before having to negotiate with a public (however internalized) that is prepared to judge my performance of myself as implausible or unacceptable. The slave narrative foregrounds these problems of narrative authority.
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Danielle Susi with Leigh Stein

Leigh Stein
Leigh Stein

In 2002, Leigh Stein dropped out of high school. In 2007, she moved to Albuquerque, where she wrote much of her first novel, The Fallback Plan, released by Melville House in 2012. In that same year her first book of poems, Dispatch from the Future, was also released. In May of 2014 the “Binders Full of Women Writers” Facebook group was established by Anna Fitzpatrick, who wanted an easy way to connect all the writers she knew. Now, the group exists as a resource for writers of all backgrounds and experience levels to connect, network, ask questions, learn from one another. As a member of this group, Stein saw a need to extend this online communication into face-to-face interaction. Along with co-chair Lux Alptraum and many other women, Stein birthed BinderCon: a symposium to empower women and gender non-conforming writers with tools, connections, and strategies to advance their careers. The first BinderCon took place in New York in October of 2014, and another is set to take place in late March of 2015 in Los Angeles. Stein and I discussed the motivation behind BinderCon, sexism in the literary world, and the power of the Internet.
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Stephanie Anderson with Jaime Robles

Jaime Robles. Photo Credit: Irene Young
Jaime Robles. Photo Credit: Irene Young

This is a series of ongoing interviews with women actively engaged with small-press publishing between the 1950s and 1980s. It comes from a desire not only to preserve their accounts but also to draw wider attention to the vital role of women editors and publishers in the mimeograph revolution and beyond. In these decades “poems were bouncing off the sidewalk” (Maureen Owen), and this series traces some of those madcap trajectories.

This interview took place via email between October 2014 and January 2015. It focuses on Jaime Robles’ role as co-editor of Five Trees Press, 1973-78 in San Francisco. The Center for the Book Arts in San Francisco will host a retrospective, “Mothers of Invention: Sas Colby, Betsy Davids, Jaime Robles,” October 23, 2015-January 10, 2016, which will give a historical overview of the development of the work of women book artists within the SF Bay Area small press scene from the mid ’70s to today. 

Stephanie Anderson: A Stanford University Special Collection round-up of “California Printers in the Fine Press Tradition” describes the press in the following: “Three women founded Five Trees Press in a rented storefront in San Francisco’s Noe Valley in 1973. Kathleen Walkup, Jaime Robles, and Cheryl Miller had become acquainted through Clifford Burke’s Cranium Press, where Miller worked as an apprentice, and through Wesley Tanner at Arif Press in Berkeley. Each brought different skills and interests to the partnership, where they taught each other, working both independently and in mutually supportive ways. Most of the press’s energy was devoted to printing, publishing and distributing small chapbooks of poetry written by women writers, some well established, such as H.D. and Denise Levertov, and others whose work would not have been considered for publication by the predominantly male printing establishment. The press also published the work of cowboy poet Gino Clays Sky and the New England poet Paul Metcalf.” Will you talk a little more about how you, Kathy, and Cheryl met? What kinds of “skills and interests” did you each have?
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Zach Savich with Andy Stallings

Andy Stallings
Andy Stallings

Zach Savich: The titles of many of the poems in To the Heart of the World (Rescue Press, 2014) invoke close friends—”To John Bowman,” “To Cassie Donish,” and so on. In the book’s notes, you say that this “to” should not be read as “for” or “about.” Could you say more about this distinction? It seems different from the mention of others in, say, Richard Hugo’s letter poems or Jack Spicer’s poems dedicated to friends, not least because some of your saluted intimates–John, Cassie–re-appear in poems addressed “to” others. This resurrection happens most affectingly, I think, in “To Missy Walker,” when you abruptly say “Cassie has asked / for a story,” a narrative involution that recalls both the work of Craig Arnold and The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night. How does this manner of address reflect what you’d consider the sensibility or gesture of the book as a whole? I’m curious, more generally, about the role of people–should one call them characters? that seems inaccurate–in the book. Plenty are present, but a sense of solitude remains, of one “walking down / any street / with books or / nothing” who is thinking tenderly of absent others. Perhaps the preposition of record, then, should be read with an overtone of a Whitmanic “with?”
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Amy Lawless with Tyler Brewington and Kelly Schirmann

Amy Lawless, Tyler Brewington, Kelly Schirmann
Amy Lawless, Tyler Brewington, Kelly Schirmann

In their split book Boyfriend Mountain (Poor Claudia, December 2014), Tyler Brewington and Kelly Schirmann negotiate American geographynot mountains per sebut certainly what it means to be a person who puts one foot in front of another and keeps going. How does one go on? In one poem, Kelly writes: “whenever we drove up the mountain for sage / I knew they would be our death / the way that first cold river was / & all that money / & those things you saw / high up in the trees / that I could never spot /even when you pointed” and it’s like she’s testifying to her friend Tyler (and thankfully also to us) who testifies right back, soul-whippingly: “A skeleton wedged between boulders / But we too would pick a mountain on the map / and drive there, just to sleep with it / We too wanted invigorating mists / cross-country skiing, Bigfoot, the lodges / little gems cupped in depressions / In love and asleep” This is a firmly American book, and like walking uphill, it communicates with your body, raises your heart rate, and makes you a little bit scared because there’s no mommy or God or daddy holding your hand anymore to keep you on the path. It’s just us.Amy Lawless

Amy Lawless: Hi Tyler! Hi Kelly! What’s up? I’m drinking coffee in my bed in the East Village neighborhood of Manhattan. It’s my day off and I couldn’t be more thrilled for having just finished reading your collaborative book Boyfriend Mountain, which is formatted head to toe—in other words, you each have your “own half” of poems that you’ve individually written. And I’m no book, but it looks pretty cool. And I’d like to talk to you about this. I have some questions. I’d like you to start by each telling me where you are (geographically), what you’re up to!
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